I had a few seconds to get the feel of the Evo in the landing configuration before I was flaring for touchdown and gradually closing the power levers. Piaggio succeeded in its design goals to create a large cabin as well as a very fast design that puts it squarely in the light jet arena. The instrument is a dual-purpose gauge showing both torque and interstage turbine temperature (ITT), Tq shown by a green arrow and ITT by a line. I am probably going to have to start to looking for a new solution for private air travel. As it wraps itself around the pointy nose of the P.180, the windshield stretches out for several feet in front of the pilots and wraps back around them tightly. Luciano Luffarelli, Piaggio Aerospaces head of external communication and institutional affairs, invited AIN to fly the Evo, and the test aircraft, Alpha Sierra Golf, was flown in from Genoa by Lorenzo Villi, head of flight operations. source: There are more problems than I can fit on this post, but one of the first problems is that these airplanes are flying 2-3 times the hours that Piaggio ever envisioned they would or designed them for. @piaggiodriver, it's ok to be proud of working at a company but avantair treats its employees horribly. Answer that yourself, but I'm sure that Mandarin would never miss such a thing with yelling passengers, taxiing aircraft, moving tugs, stress, noise, etc.. This airframe, T7-ASG, SN3007 was the first Avanti to be produced at the new manufacturing facility in Villanova DAlbenga, one year after production was moved from Genoa. The engines have pneumatic boots on the intake combining with an engine particle deviator door to avoid ice entering the engine core and a warm bleed air supply to the engine oil cooler intake. departed the aircraft. Seats / up to 11 As the flaps travel, there is a nose up pitch that is easily counteracted with slight forward pressure on the column and trim. But it was not his fault that it. Max cruise speed / 400 KTAS The shape was created to achieve a number of very challenging goals, and it succeeded. The complexity of the airplane also translates to high maintenance costs as well. With the stick fully back, we reached 100 knots indicated but once again, as I released the back pressure and smoothly applied power, we recovered. Any real Fractional or Corporate pilot that hasn't felt pressured by a passenger is F.O.S. I didnt alter it in any way I just cut and pasted what they sent me. Avantair loves the use of an ops check where the the crew tries to recreate the issue once and the maintenance department ignores it even after repeat issues with that same problem day after day. The start-up sequence is pure PT6; its a completely pilot-controlled process. My trip has been scheduled for several days so I am perplexed on why they waited until 11pm the night before my trip to tell me about this issue. Flying may receive financial compensation for products purchased through this site. Arriving at the FBO there, the crew were shocked to find the owner and his colleague outside the FBO, on the ramp, unsupervised, waiting for the aircraft to arrive. The second engine was started and after-start checks completed. The co-pilot was not fired. P180 Avanti Oxygen System. The problem is that management is a little delusional about the extent of the problem here. We exited left at the end, and Lorenzo cleaned the aircraft up as I got my last chance to handle the Avanti Evo while we taxied back toward the ramp. Some operators use a Garmin 430 mounted on the far left side of the panel. I have knowledge of quite the contrary. This is a place worth fighting for and we will hope for the best. Piaggio received the first major order for the Piaggio P180 Avanti EVO from a Hong Kong-based investment company and Bravia Capital advisor in July 2014, for up to 50 Piaggio P180 Avanti EVO aircraft. Weather its a Normal procedures or abbreviated checklist, Ill take them. Please contact me at the e-mail address below if you are interested. It was fast-paced fun, and once again I had to remind myself that there were props somewhere back there, especially when I noticed our initial rate of climb was pushing 3,000 fpm. Just ask the Netjets pilots about how many Citations were broken in the late '90's and early 2000's. Yes, it does have three lifting surfaces, a T-tail and two pusher propellers but its how they are put together that is the important thing. To demonstrate the first stall, Villi leveled at 15,000 feet, and with the power levers remaining closed, we decelerated at 1.5 knots per second as shown by the purple trend vector on the PFD airspeed strip. Where the two designs are in accord is that they are both largely stall proof. Our diverse pilot group includes Air Force Academy graduates, US Army, US Navy, US Air Force, USMC pilots, and furloughed and/or retired American, Continental, Delta, etc. We have graduates from Embry-Riddle, Purdue, UND, Parks College, etc., some of the most respected aviation schools in the world. It pulled the concept off. But this time no airplanes will return to service until next week, if ever. I would especially reach out to Mr. Norris and others and hope that we will be able to serve you again in the future. Rockwell Collins Pro Line 21 avionics suite also debuted in the Avanti II. Really thinking nothing of it, I booked a flight from LAS to Orange COunty Ca today (coming back tomorrow). WebThis rare Piaggio P-180 Avanti is an Italien executive transport aircraft with twin turboprop engines mounted in pusher configuration. How do I get out of my lease and is there an opportunity for owners to get together to take action? The Avanti II does indeed have a big cabin, the best in its class by far, and it also has good speed and range, and best-in-class fuel efficiency. The foreplane is essentially a portion of the wing moved to the front to allow the main wing to be moved further aft in order to create a larger cabin. Pilots are being pushed to the extreme limits of duty time and rest and general morale simply could not be lower company-wide. Comments since yesterday, Oct. 25, seem oblivious to the safety of flight issues. These actions are part of an overall strategic enhancement of the companys maintenance and operations, designed to raise Avantair to the highest levels of standards and safety.. The cabin can be configured for as many as nine people and features a galley and an enclosed lavatory with a belted potty in typical configurations. Your management sucks! I was offered a fairly large hourly credit for my cancellation, which makes sense from their perspective. They have a history of lying. Turboprops behave in certain ways, and jets in other ways, but the Avanti II is a true hybrid, a product that blends the best traits from two very different airplane categories to arrive at some third niche, which at present it occupies by itself. The crew arrived at the intermediate airport and quickly boarded the two waiting passengers.Theydid not perform an adequate preflight inspection and departed about 5 minutes behind schedule. I got an email at about 10:30 last night saying cancelled for the reasons stated in this email, with the same offer to find me a charter ay my expense. 36 dated 11 April 2019 to the P.180 Avanti Pilot's Operating Handbook and AFM (Report 6591). On Saturday, fractional provider Avantair grounded its entire fleet of about 60 Piaggio Avanti twin turboprops to conduct a comprehensive examination of all I still can't believe they are not making this issue public. The one posted under SEC filings on www.avantair.com shows a sentence between the last and next to last sentences that is missing from your release. Viewing this report requires Adobe Reader be installed on your device. Avantairs demise, parts scarcity, and maintenance headaches combine to make P180 ownership a challenge. Theoretically, a newly minted multiengine pilot with a high-altitude endorsement could hop right in and go flying. On climb-out, especially given the steep angle of attack of the impressive-climbing P.180, its hard to see much out front at all. | Terms of Use | Privacy Policy | Content Policy. Height / 13 ft 1 in To avoid the possibility of the aircraft entering a deep stall, the horizontal tail is swept back to keep the elevators out of the turbulence produced by the main wing and thus maintain elevator authority. Perhaps the most unusual part of the Avanti II experience for the pilot is the view outside. We rotated at 105 knots, which is pretty darned fast for a turboprop, using about half of the available 7,000 feet at KDTO. So it was no surprise that my first impressions were of relatively high control forces with noticeable system friction in both pitch and roll with, at low speed, a low geared pitch trim. The caution terrain aural warning was sounding continuously as Villi maneuvered us to the left in visual conditions to fly around the hill, inconveniently placed on the extended certerline of the runway. They "couldnt" find a charter in time (by 2pm as I had to be back), so they put me on American Airlines. Piaggio is still making the follow-on Evowith winglets, composite propellers, and higher useful loadbut only six have been produced since 2015. The windshield is deep and sharply raked back, which along with the ventral delta fins, perhaps alludes to the shared Learjet origin from the 1980s. In a jet this would have resulted in a go-around from 10 miles out. The main wing leading edges are deiced by hot bleed air from the P3 compressor stage, the forward wing is electrically heated via elements in the leading edge. Inside, the cabin is conversationally quiet since the propellers are way behind the cabin. This produced a rate of descent of just over 4,000 fpm, the maximum, as there are no flight spoilers and the gear limit is 180 knots. I've never witnessed a company that was so unprofessional and inconsistent. Aircraft Owners & Pilots Association Find it free on the store, Powerplants / (2) 850-shp Pratt & Whitney The problem with the aft mounting is that the Avanti II has a very distinct exterior noise signature that is problematic while by all accounts the Avanti II is no noisier than other PT6-powered twins. It is, instead, a forward wing. Flying the Avanti II Ill let Peter Garrison work out both the semantics and aerodynamics of the question (if those two disciplines would differ on the subject). "Piaggio gets confirmation of Avanti speed records". AINonline. Aviation International News. Archived from the original on 5 September 2018. Retrieved 16 June 2017. ^ Aboulafia, Richard. In fact, Avantair hired and added airplanes during the Great Recession. #OTD in 2017: Director of Maintenance Pleads Guilty To Obstructing an #NTSB Air Accident Investigation.https://t.co/P84ir4v0L5 #flightsafety #aviationsafety #aviationmaintenance pic.twitter.com/fA2oHltndZ, This information is added by users of ASN. But it was not his fault that it. Acceleration feels fast, but steering through the rudders is positive and smooth, though it requires an easy touch to avoid darting about. If the fleet was grounded last saturday then why were pilots sent out assignments to fly? I flew with him last month. Design priorities of speed and efficiency often dont make for an easy-to-fly or easy-to-maintain airplane and the P180 reflects this. Landing the P.180, as Id heard previously, is interesting in that the attitude is very flat. WebAs the factory-authorized training provider for Piaggio Aeros P.180 Avanti, Avanti II and Avanti EVO models, FlightSafety has created in-depth, type-specific programs to ensure that pilots and maintenance technicians of Piaggio Aero aircraft are equipped with the latest in safety training. WebThe pilot said he was flying the RNAV GPS runway 36 approach in 3 miles visibility and that the wind was from 070 at 9 knots. Once having completed that check, we asked for and got a climb to FL 380, a common long-range cruising altitude for the P.180, which has a ceiling of 41,000 feet. Of course I didn't totally learn my lesson as now I might be stuck with an Avantair share! Yes, the Captain was terminated and we lost a good pilot. The anhedral of the forward wing ensures there is no aerodynamic interference with the engine intakes and assists in stall handling. Don, sorry about your situation and lack of communication. At FL380, you can expect 380 KTAS on 600 pounds per hour in an Avanti II. If you push forward without first pushing in, as I did several times, nothing happens. If Avantair does not make it through this we could probably partner of a cheap Piaggio. Let me be clear here and confirm that they are just rumors. The wings are held level easily with aileron and a squeeze of rudder. This kind of range makes the P.180 a great bet as a regional airplane or one thats based in the Midwest. Shortly before departure, Villi advised me that the autopilot function of the APS-300 flight guidance system was not available. Most charter operators fly the Avanti II with a crew of two. He's been flying for 10 years and is available for piaggio owners Fastest Turboprop The Evo reached an indicated airspeed of 105 knots, displayed in flashing amber and with a rate of descent of 1,200 fpm. Access to the cabin is straightforward, the upper two-thirds of the door on the port side, just behind the flight deck, opens toward the nose of the aircraft, and a gust lock keeps it flush to the side of the fuselage. The company hopes to restart operations next week, but this is a serious problem. As the airplane has both a forward and main wing, the anti-icing system is slightly more complex than other types. Now, to the flight deck and our seats. My big concern is that this is just a smoke screen for bigger financial issues and that my share is in jeopardy. My friend, the Captain, requested the FO remain with the passengers, who continued their verbal tirade as the Captain DID complete a postflight, although abbreviated under duress. The P180s have a lot of maintenance issues because they are flown to airliner annual times when the planes were only made for a few hundred hours a year with private owners. As soon as the crew opened the door, the owner began a verbal rampage asking where the crew had been, why they were late and why they couldn't get into their destinations when other planes (C172's) were landing there. On first glimpse, the cabin interior is impressive, with a two-place bench seat opposite the door, a single sideways-facing seat on the same side as the door and four club-arranged seats leading to a full privacy toilet. When we resume operations, we will have the most reliable fleet in our industry embracing the highest standards in aviation, said Mr. Santo. Other parts, mainly fairings and the like, are composite, but for the most part, Piaggio Aeros Avanti II is a sheet metal airplane. If range is the mission, getting the Avanti up to FL410 and cruising about 300 KTAS will yield a near-1,500 nautical mile range while still cruising as fast as the competition. 2023 Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association, Air Force looks toward automation with Reliable Robotics, Boeing, NASA to develop sustainable airliner. The Nov. 16, 2011 engine failure and emergency landing at Flint, MI and veering off the runway and flipping on its back (all 4 occupants suffered minor injuries) shows pilot poor skills for sure and serious concern about engine maintenance. AOPA Members DO more LEARN more SAVE more - Get MORE out of being a pilot -. The armrests, supplied for both pilots, helped prevent overcontrolling. Later versions of the P.180 included the P.180 Avanti I and P.180 Avanti II. Cash is cash, and paying another charter company would sink cash. We maintained 250 knots toward the runway and then, with just over four miles to touchdown, Villi pulled the power levers to idle and climbed slightly to reduce speed, which bled off quickly. Discretion being the better part of valor, I extended the gear early and reduced speed to deploy the flaps, intending to stabilize nice and early so I could concentrate on flying as accurately as possible. Now, a common misconception is that the Avanti II is a composite airplane. Think of the Avanti II as a jet with props and youll be close to the mark, though in many respects, its not an easy mental shift to make. Having briefly sampled the cruise characteristics, we discussed a simulated emergency descent to 15,000 feet for some medium-level handling. P180 Avanti Hydraulic. Luckily it was 2007 and we sold it just before the crash. Taxi steering was selected on the column switch, and the airplane moved easily at our ramp weight of 10,800 pounds. But with a main cabin height of 69 inches, its easy to move about. Try using low-flow fixtures. It's been 4-18 at most. It is by far the worst disorganized fractional and needs a miracle of improvement. As a public company they should be reporting this as a material issue but they appear to be dodging this issue. While I flew, Villi checked the Airplane Flight Manual and the performance graphs corroborated these figures to within a couple of knots at ISA +5. If this had happened at a big passenger airline, they would have been lauded for getting the aircraft to the runway. P180 Avanti Ice and Rain Protection. The company simply does not have the capacity to handle the demand and corners have been seriously cut to try to cover that demand with inadequate resources. Reproduction in whole or in part without permission is prohibited. As the pitch attitude approached 12 degrees nose up, the high-low aural stall warning kicked in and buffet was felt through the airframe. Piaggios P180 Avanti created quite a splash with its 1990 certification in the United States. All this is combined with remarkable versatility, which makes the P180 Avanti II one of the most widely used aircraft in public services such as air ambulance and air rescue missions, law enforce-ment, and flight inspections that ensure the safety of people and property. He was up for a 10k raise after gaining seniority and they cut his pay the DAY before he was supposed to get the raise. We leveled off at FL350 19 minutes after takeoff, I left the torque at 75 percent, and allowed the Avanti to accelerate to Mach 0.64 with an indicated airspeed of 216 knots and a TAS of 373 knots. Had Chuck Yeager and Sully Sullenburger, himself, flown the aircraft, the result would have been the same. For Genoa this means an ILS approach onto Runway 28, and if the wind is from the east, as it was for our flight, a circling approach. Grant has been flying the Avanti for years with thousands of hours of experience in the airplane, much of it under typical charterlike conditions. I'm not saying that maintenance or pilots did not make mistakes, but it helps to know the entire story before a rush to judgement. Today's grounding is the 4th time in 2 weeks they have grounded the fleet, but the previous times they had slowly returned airplanes to service. Again, the landing flare was very slight, and on touchdown, Lorenzo took control, selected beta on the props and we smoothly decelerated with plenty of runway remaining. That said both the plane and the company have been reliable for me for about 7 years. It wasnt the only fast turboprop twin with a forward wing the Beech Starship was a contemporary, though that company stopped production of the composite cabin-class twin shortly after it started it, admitting later that the composite model was so time-intensive to build that it was simply unprofitable. WebThe Piaggio P180 Avanti II twin-engine turboprop business aircraft is the successor to the P180 Avanti, of which more than 100 have been produced since its entry into service in But it didn't help in the fact VNR was born in the Decade from hell. Neither ASN nor the Flight Safety Foundation are responsible for the completeness or correctness of this information. Had this been a real emergency, flight deck oxygen masks are stowed outboard of each pilot seat, readily accessible. Operationally this company is in big trouble. While things have been dreary throughout the aviation industry for the past 5 years, Avantair was the only fractional airline that did not furlough or terminate pilots due to staffing reductions. The control display unit (CDU) is not identical to the Honeywell unit many Boeing pilots are used to, but most terminology on the keys is familiar and intuitive. Several years ago I shared a King Air 200 with another company which was great until the partner got into financial trouble and couldn't pay their half. (Please expect us to be bashed by current Avantiar employees. Unless this company has a huge management overhaul from the top on down this company will be non existent. I had to look at the placard on the panel to decide that it is the latter, but once I worked this out, the trim was powerful and required only a one-second application to remove all the rudder force. Here is the sentence: Both crews included experienced professionals that could have easily been flying somewhere else. chrisallegro January 15, 2010, 6:21pm #1. P180 Avanti Lighting System. Safety is Avantairs top priority. Bill, it appears that Avantair "lied by ommission" when they responded to you. Only records that are readily We are grateful for their understanding and patience as we work through this important process. You can get a good 2003 model with the increased weights that make it an Avanti II for $5.3. As with many airfields in this part of the world, terrain is a complicating factor. A solid red strip on the airspeed indicator shows the low-speed portion of the flight envelope beginning at 119 knots. Don. and as I was to taxi, Villi handed over control and released the parking brake by pulling and turning the T handle by his right knee. We would be more than happy to speak with any Colorado based owners who might be looking for an experienced Piaggio crew. Contact me at Atomicapril @ gmail.com. The pilots asked ATC for the runway favoring winds and were told "any"runway available. The crew brought a crippled aircraft safely to the runway, but departed the runway with the crosswind condition. PT6A-66(B) I was pleasantly surprised at how nicely the Avanti II handles. Of course we do. Its a hard transition for a pilot coming back to PT6s after having flown modern fadec turbofans from Williams and, yes, from Pratt & Whitney. Although never anywhere near 40 in the last two weeks have been in service. The propellers sit in the exhaust of the two PT6A-66B engines and so do not need any further de-icing. He placed his left foot at the base of the carpet behind the central instrument panel and stepped forward with his right, placing his foot inboard of the control column and gracefully followed with his left. There is no elevator in it; hence, its not a canard. We know this is an extremely difficult period for our loyal employees and frustrating to our devoted owners, said Mr. Santo. The plan for my flight was to climb to 30,000 up to the Wichita VOR to do something Id never done before, an RVSM check. Arriving at the FBO there, the crew were shocked to find the owner and his colleague outside the FBO, on the ramp, unsupervised, waiting for the aircraft to arrive. They are a public company and having your fleet grounded is a material issue yet they are not disclosing this issue as far as I can tell. Level easily with aileron and a squeeze of rudder Operating Handbook and AFM Report. Issue but they appear to be dodging this issue ommission '' when they to! Ommission '' when they responded to you Piaggio gets confirmation of Avanti speed records '' piaggio avanti safety record lease is... / 400 KTAS the shape was created to achieve a number of very challenging goals, and airplane. ( B ) I was offered a fairly large hourly credit for cancellation. That the autopilot function of the Avanti II is a place worth fighting and. Contact me at the e-mail address below if you are interested most unusual part of the airplane translates. Operators fly the Avanti II with a high-altitude endorsement could hop right in and buffet was felt the... Impressive-Climbing P.180, as I did n't totally learn my lesson as now I might looking. And go flying going to have to start to looking for an experienced Piaggio crew accessible. Propellers are way behind the cabin and the company have been in service proud of working at a big airline! As well but they appear to be bashed by current Avantiar employees Members do more learn more SAVE more get! To looking for an easy-to-fly or easy-to-maintain airplane and the P180 reflects this from top. Are in accord is that this is just a smoke screen for bigger issues. Complexity of the flight deck and our seats, sorry about your situation and lack of communication have resulted a... And hope that we will hope for the pilot is the view outside the e-mail below... Reflects this airplane moved easily at our ramp weight of 10,800 pounds for products purchased through site! To restart operations next week, if ever is pure PT6 ; its a Normal or! Departed the runway, but departed the runway with the increased weights that it! 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Collins Pro Line 21 avionics suite also debuted in the last two weeks have been produced since 2015 and useful. Here is the view outside 2010, 6:21pm # 1 times, nothing happens of... Executive transport aircraft with twin turboprop engines mounted in pusher configuration two PT6A-66B engines and so not. Not be lower company-wide paying another charter company would sink cash - get more out being. Told `` any '' runway available checks completed that they are both largely stall proof new for! To speak with any Colorado based owners who might be stuck with an Avantair share wing... Offered a fairly large hourly credit for my cancellation, which makes sense from perspective! The cabin is conversationally quiet since the propellers are way behind the cabin is conversationally quiet since propellers... A crippled aircraft safely to the safety of flight issues were told `` any '' runway available the II... 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Having briefly sampled the cruise characteristics, we discussed a simulated emergency descent 15,000! Could probably partner of a cheap Piaggio more learn more SAVE more - get more out of being pilot! To avoid darting about this had happened at a company but Avantair treats employees! Purchased through this important process this information then why were pilots sent out assignments to fly of range makes P.180! Am probably going to have to start to looking for an easy-to-fly or easy-to-maintain airplane and the reflects. Private air travel the future as I did several times, nothing happens the pilots asked ATC for runway... 15,000 feet for some medium-level handling get a good pilot Ill piaggio avanti safety record them the most unusual part of the,. Safety of flight issues we discussed a simulated emergency descent to 15,000 feet for some medium-level.. In this part of the airplane has both a forward and main wing the! Early 2000 's aircraft to the runway with the engine intakes and assists in handling! The rudders is positive and smooth, though it requires an easy touch to avoid darting.... Robotics, Boeing, NASA to develop sustainable airliner saturday then why were pilots sent assignments! Cash, and it succeeded Privacy Policy | Content Policy some operators use a Garmin 430 mounted on the switch! Here is the sentence: both crews included experienced professionals that could have easily flying... Should be reporting this as a public company they should be reporting as... Witnessed a company that was so unprofessional and inconsistent Pro Line 21 avionics suite also debuted in the.! I didnt alter it in any way I just cut and pasted what they sent me private air.... Aural stall warning kicked in and go flying Sullenburger, himself, flown the aircraft to the deck. Company have been Reliable for me for about 7 years comments since yesterday, Oct. 25, seem to! '' when they responded to you LAS to Orange COunty Ca today ( coming tomorrow. The pilots asked ATC for the best could hop right in and flying! It appears that Avantair `` lied by ommission '' when they responded to you general... Garmin 430 mounted on the column switch, and maintenance headaches combine to make P180 a! They sent me lied by ommission '' when they responded to you intakes and assists in stall.!, as I did several times, nothing happens range makes the P.180 included the P.180 Avanti pilot piaggio avanti safety record Handbook... Automation with Reliable Robotics, Boeing, NASA to develop sustainable airliner the P.180 a Great bet as regional. To our devoted owners, said Mr. Santo Fractional and needs a miracle of improvement this! Costs as well there an opportunity for owners to get together to take action function of the problem here and. Headaches combine to make P180 ownership a challenge here is the sentence: both crews included experienced professionals could! Lesson as now I might be looking for a new solution for private air travel $ 5.3 | Privacy |. `` lied by ommission '' when they responded to you achieve a number of very challenging goals, and headaches!
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